coComments related to sicheiiyazhi

"If this is happening without

2007-12-28T03:16:53.462+01:00

"If this is happening without permission then that is a privacy and security issue, not a copyright issue." I don't see how it's not a copyright issue ... "I wouldn’t rely too heavily on data from that specific group of people (students by definition generally have much less disposable income than most adults..." Until I informed my father, a retired man with a posh house near the beach, that viewing films online from illegal sites or getting copies from his friends (his 50+ year-old friends) wasn't legal, he had no clue. We even spent a short while arguing over the issue until I showed him, in writing, that it's not legal. So I'm not sure I buy the argument that it's "just the kids." "Exposure is the foundation to generating income." Yes, in the system we currently have, that's true, but only because exposure leads to contracts leads to sales. In a culture where sharing is predominant, exposure leads to more exposure leads to more sharing ... but not necessarily to sales (unless alternate revenue systems are instituted). "If all copies of music were shared do you really believe that “professional” musicians (i.e. musicians that make a living from their art) would cease to exist?" Perhaps in the sense that we currently mean it, yes. There may still be musicians who are "sponsored" by the wealthy (think Medieval times), when the "masses" couldn't afford to pay for music anyway. If the masses now "refuse" to pay for music, how is that any different? That's not something I'd want to return to. I'm being a bit hyperbolic, but I don't think the point is far off. It seems that you're thinking of file-sharing in terms of its present uses, where some sharing among friends doesn't significantly impact the market. I'm thinking in terms of what file-sharing will become if people continue to think of it as "no big deal" (which seems to be the norm online). When the majority of people obtain their entertainment through "shared" files rather than purchased ones, then the revenue simply won't be there (or, as I said in an earlier comment, will have to come through some other means that doesn't yet exist). Nothing I've heard so far convinces me otherwise, but I actually do hope that 1) I'm wrong, and 2) someone will convince me (because it all seems somewhat inevitable anyway). But predicting the future is a tough racket, and usually, when predicting A or B, it turns out to be C anyway. At any rate, I agree with most of your last comment, and we've found some common ground. My only real concern is that 1) artists have a shot at making a decent living wage from their work (encouraging more and better art), and 2) journalists and academics have a shot at earning a decent living wage from their research and publications (encouraging more thoughtful, supportable, and varied opinions backed by substance, not just flash.) I don't mean to scream that the sky is falling, I'm just concerned and think the issue is worth thinking about as carefully as we can.

I feel your dilemma, Clay. I

2007-12-27T16:22:15.907+01:00

I feel your dilemma, Clay. I left the classroom last spring--for much the same reason--with no clear destination. I'm now doing contracting work for the Children's Bureau. The work is still important, I think, and is also "easier" than teaching. (My full-time responsibilities now equate to what I did in my "spare time" as a teacher.) But I miss the teaching part, helping students, pondering the best ways to help them move forward. (And the hour-long trainings that I deliver now don't fill the void). And, to be honest, I also miss "academia" and the culture of knowledge, study, and research. I must be a nerd. I sometimes consider educational leadership, or higher education, but can't convince myself on either front. In my most fantastic daydreams, I envision starting my own school with a group of like-minded educators. Which directions are you considering post public-school classroom?

Hi Peter, I'm still working m

2007-12-26T19:00:43.025+01:00

Hi Peter, I'm still working my way through this issue, so forgive me if some of this is obvious or obviously wrong. I can't seem to get past the idea that: if, 1) in the past, distribution of a copy of a work almost always carried with it some compensation for that distribution (whether to the artist or publisher, etc.) and now, 2) distribution does not necessarily carry any compensation with it even though distributions are almost always copies then, 3) it's reasonable for those who used to profit from the distribution of copies to see the kind of distribution technology allows as a "denial." Unless we concede that and try to find a common ground, both sides will just keep yelling at each other, I think. I also think, in the fight for a free and public domain, we have to be very careful not to replace the old system with one that will not, in the LONG TERM, encourage a sustainable creative class. I'm sure that "open and free" will create a vibrant amateur creative class, but I'm not sure it will create a professional one unless "open and free" applies only to transformative works and not to simply copy-and-distribute. And I do think that's a problem. Some types of creative work seem very improbable if not impossible without the opportunity of a professional creative class, whereby those individuals can spend the bulk of their time and energy on their creations (because they're getting paid to do so ... paid substantially enough to not have to supplement that income.) I'm in no way suggesting that the current system works (and it's definitely not fair or balanced). But what you're talking about seems to be about the freedom to copy, which even Lessig doesn't support. His concern is for the freedom to build upon/transform the work of others. If I'm reading him right, he's not in support of free and open copying and distribution (for the reasons I'm suggesting above, and the reason Jefferson and the others created copyright initially: to allow "inventors" the opportunity to profit from their inventions and therefore focus primarily on them.) This is also why I think we need a "professional" media with professional journalists ... because amateurs don't have the time to do the job as well as a professional, who trained for and devotes the bulk of his/her time to that purpose. (Again, not executed perfectly, but better than the alternative.) Am I making any sense? Am I still stuck in some kind of quagmire? Also, don't feel like I'm expecting you to answer all this ... I'm using your thoughts as an opportunity for my own, not demanding an explanation from you. ;) Thanks for your post.

I know what you mean about fin

2007-11-01T20:32:44.230+01:00

I know what you mean about finding time. I'd like to spend more time thinking about this and related issues and not steal all your comment space in the process. I'm going to try to write up some thoughts and make some connections in a blog post soon (focusing on these ideas, not directly responding to you), but I'll post the link here when I do that if you're interested. In the meantime, a few quick, undeveloped thoughts: I agree with much of what you said in your last comment. The national focus *should* be on reaching basic standards at this point (I appreciate your "manifesto for the crisis" approach), we shouldn't be having so much trouble getting students to that basic level, and schools should be flogged when they stop seeing "foundational" skills as foundational only. I wonder if we'd agree on the best methods for going about reaching those goals, or on the causes behind the problems? But those are different discussions. A major issue for me is "accurate tests." I'm just not comfortable with any system of assessment that relies so heavily on multiple-choice questions. I think this is the "empty middle" you referred to earlier. A longer discussion about your view of assessment would be interesting. Also, you didn't answer my question in regards to accountability, but maybe this isn't the place for that? (Incidentally, I found the discussion of merit-based pay over on Eduwonkette to be pretty interesting.) Overall, I think we are moving somewhere. Thanks for the responses.

Alas for that empty middle ...

2007-10-24T16:32:54.895+02:00

Alas for that empty middle ... but no hard feelings. I'm just working through difficult questions in my head, for which I don't think I have definite answers, and enjoy doing that with folks who don't already agree with me because it makes my thinking better. So thanks for that! I didn't mean to imply that I'm anti-testing, or even anti-multiple-choice testing. And for basic reading skills, I think a carefully-designed multiple-choice test can do the trick. I don't think that's the case for writing, though. Nor do I think it's the case for higher-level reading, analysis, and critique, or any sort of generative/creative/synthesizing kinds of mental work. So, if we want to use m.c. tests for basic reading skills, I think that's fine. But what's after that? As it stands now, just more m.c. tests. That's what I find unacceptable. Why should so much, across all grades and disciplines, rest on a single form of assessment (and that only occurs every other year or so)? Further, if schools approached these tests as "bare minimum" skills, that would be fine. In my experiences, though, they don't. For example, in my county, elementary students take 32 "CMS" tests--multiple-choice tests that are supposed to "prep" them for the state test. There are only 36 weeks of school. That's the kind of insanity that's driving me nuts. Also, science and history tests, at least here in VA, are purely memory tests ... page after page of date and fact recollection. Nothing that can even remotely test an understanding of the purpose and approach of the discipline, for example. As for the accountability, do you really think it's fair that your students, who come in at "level 1," and students two districts over, who come in at "level 6," are both expected to reach "level 7" by the end of the year? And if your students don't reach that level, you lose your job? I'm not being rhetorical, here ... are you really OK with that? Or is my understanding of accountability off somehow? As for re-structuring, I'd go back to my earlier statement. M.c. tests might be fine for basic skills. After that, I'm not sure yet. But I don't think m.c. tests are the answer. What are your ideas? Thanks for your continual thoughtfulness and challenges.

Hey TMAO. I may not always ag

2007-10-23T03:54:57.049+02:00

Hey TMAO. I may not always agree with you, but I do appreciate your passionate concern for education. That being said, a few responses here to your list: 1. The problem is the test. Not the demand for effectiveness, but the way it's measured. Soooo much data and research on this. 2. True, the low pass rate is embarrassing and absurb. (That doesn't change #1, though.) 3. Not true. Effectiveness is measured by a particular kind of test under NCLB. As any education 101 class will tell you, what you test for, and the manner in which you test for it, determines what you get. 4. True. 5. True. 6. A quality education should attempt to educate the whole person, and the arts are a part of that as much as any other subject. Trace this back to "the true, the good, and the beautiful." How can we even imagine an education that has no concern for beauty? And again, tons of research on the arts and creativity on this one. 7. This is reductive, but your motivation is understandable. The problem is that "the poor will be with you always." If you are always educating for the lowest common denominator in a mass system, you will always have a reductive and uninspiring system. Really, though, this is a structural problem. The way we do school right now assumes a common ability level, arranged by age, that simply does not match reality ... now more than ever. This is true both system-wide and within individual classrooms. Until that structure is re-worked, both ends of the spectrum will suffer at the other's expense. And a quick comment on the exchange with Mary ... I agree that teacher effectiveness is horribly overlooked--appallingly so. On the other hand, I don't want multiple-choice tests serving as the only measure of my effectiveness, nor do I want my students held up to a national average as a measure of effectiveness. I'm one of seven teachers, during one of twelve years. Outside of that, the influence of parents and community is enormous. Assess what my students can do in my given discipline when they enter my class and compare it to when they leave. Also look at their interest and motivation. That will start to tell you whether or not I'm effective. And I'm unconvinced about the wasted money: the millions my county pours into standardized testing, while students sit in over-crowded classrooms with shamefully limited resources (both technological and pen-and-paper) is infuriating.

Of course, it will take a whil

2007-03-15T03:34:56.863+01:00

Of course, it will take a while to overcome tech-angst no matter how simple the app, and we'll ultimately never rid the world of nay-sayers (which ain't necessarily a bad thing). Anyway, I double-checked your want ad and considered your last comment. I'm also assuming your looking for free or free-ish solutions. So, revised thoughts: Simplest Single Solution: Wordpress MU won't do all the things you listed in your want ad, but it is probably the easiest. Most Complete Single Solution: Moodle does most of it, and you can make it prettier, but it's always left me kinda ... meh. Best Compromise: If I had to pick only two apps, and ease of use from the teacher end were my priorities, I'd go with Elggspaces and Wikispaces. Wikispaces for "course pages" (and perhaps later, student collaborative projects) and Elggspaces for the interactivity, individual blogs, community, podcasting, file sharing, etc. Both are easy and customizable (more so if you're hosting the elgg software yourself). You won't get the calendar feature with this solution, but dropping in a communal Google Calendar isn't that tough. Best Hope: I'm still thinking OpenAcademic might end up being the solution, but it's just not ready yet. Hail Mary: I've kicked the tires of Think.com, but never given it a test drive, so it might be completely wrong for what you're after. There may be other solutions, but if there are, I haven't met 'em yet. Once again, good luck.

Dan, As far as ease of use, I

2007-03-14T20:56:15.606+01:00

Dan, As far as ease of use, I like Elggspaces (that way I don't have to install and configure the software myself): http://elggspaces.com As far as a complete solution, I'm still holding onto Joomla for now (you've seen my brief review, I think, and I'll be adding a post soon about "must have extenions" for Joomla). I looked into Drupal before I ever started with Mambo/Joomla and decided it was too complex for some things, and not customizable enough for others. It may have changed since then ... I haven't been back lately. Our current solution = http://www.wshsbeyond.com Joomla for social networking, forum discussions, and as a "home base" to link to other things (using the Community Builder profile extension) Wikispaces for the wiki component (though Joomla does a nice install of MediaWiki software, too ... I just prefer the ease of Wikispaces over MediaWiki). Elggspaces for individual student blogs (and they list their blog URLs on their Joomla profiles, so they can find each other there or through the elgg site directly) SchoolFusion for homework management (and this is school-wide ... which you can look at through the "courses"page on wshsbeyond.com; it's also NOT free). I've been emailing with Bill Fitzgeral about OpenAcademic. His plans look pretty amazing, so I am watching that closely. I would recommend setting up a few options and letting some of your more tech-savvy students play with each. See which one they respond to best, compare that with your personal preference (since you'll be managing it), and go from there. I know you have a Friday presentation deadline, but can you present this: "We've found X number of possible solutions that seem most appropriate. We'll be doing some testing over the next few weeks with students to see which solution works best and will then implement it." At any rate, tough choices. Good luck! Feel free to get in touch if I can help. Eric

Don't feel alone, then, Mindy.

2007-03-02T03:01:16.747+01:00

Don't feel alone, then, Mindy. Your comment is pretty much my latest rant in my personal journal. Maybe we should all go fill the empty slots at Chris's Science Leadership Academy [pdf], or start a school of our own ... ;)

Two shots: 1) I never have "t

2007-02-28T23:07:50.758+01:00

Two shots: 1) I never have "tried" to care. This is going to sound a bit cheap, perhaps, but it's true: I've always just thought of my students as people with whom I have to accomplish some tasks. My students tend to think of me differently than other teachers, too (so they tell me). This was brought home again today. A student was hanging out after school, just talking about whatever, mentioned another teacher, then said, "she's probably the best teacher I've had so far." Then the student looked at me, put on a weird face, and said, "Oh, except for you, but you don't count." Obviously, I asked what that meant. Answer: "I don't think of you as a teacher. You're just ... Mr. Hoefler. That guy that taught me all that stuff last year ... I don't know." Now that's weird, right? This is not an isolated event. My theory on this is that I'm not at all interested in or invested in the power/position play between teacher and student. I just don't care about that. I've been teaching eight years and have yet to write a referral. On the other hand, I've never had any need to. I just don't think I play the teacher/education game the way most others in my school seem to.(That's not meant to be derogatory at all.) And it's not because I don't work my students hard. I consistently hear the "word on the street" is that my class is tough, the assignments are "a lot of work," but that you do "learn stuff." I'm not saying my approach is better, and I'm definitely not recommending it (because I'm not even sure I could define this aspect of it). But I do think it's got something to do with power. Is that off topic, or does that extend the discussion? 2) Dan--to your last comment to me: I don't know that I'd still disagree without hearing more and then thinking more. I think I'd like to write a post up about these ideas, but can't right away. I do think it's worth thinking through carefully, though. Maybe you'll beat me to it.

Hey Jeff ... as to the "what t

2007-02-28T02:40:37.707+01:00

Hey Jeff ... as to the "what to teach," I do agree it is a vital question. I didn't see it as one that fit this particular conversation, but it is big. I'm constantly thinking about the what/why/how questions and trying to work them out in my planning (large-scale and small-scale), but I haven't translated that work to blog posts yet. So far, the only online version of my thinking on these questions has been on a wiki. Of course, my specific reply to this problem will focus on English-related stuff, so it might not interest Dan, and vice versa with his math stuff. However, I'm sure there are larger principles that we can all discuss, that supercede discipline-specific concerns. I think I've been working "top down" over on my blog ... setting up some large-scale, philosophical approaches and frames, hoping that I'll eventually start filling those in with more and more specific thoughts/approaches/ideas. And Dan ... I'm not picking a fight, and maybe it doesn't matter, but I've always kinda thought I need to know the what and why before I can find the right how. (See ... that's one of them thar "superceding" principles we might rassle with.) Good conversation going here.

Just got in, checked the reade

2007-02-26T22:43:48.441+01:00

Just got in, checked the reader, saw this post, didn't want to read about Freedom Writers, realized you weren't really writing about that, and was glad I finished reading. This post is a prime example of why I gave you the "thinking blogger" nomination. My whole thing is balance (as you've probably figured out by now). Usually, I'd comment about the need for it. However, I think there are more than enough people holding down the "passion/concern" side of the argument that I can just throw my weight on the "effective teaching/professionalism" side without much hesitation. And you are a bit insane, if sanity means conformity to the majority perception. Like you, I'm not against "the other side," but no one seems to be listening to this side closely enough ... perhaps out of a fear of losing sight of the other side, perhaps because of the perception that NCLB is a cold, consuming monster that must be kept at bay. (I'm guilty of this, too, sometimes ... at least in my blogging.) Whatever the reason, it's making us all a little crazy. I'm with you on this. Love the kids, but you damn well better teach them what they need to know, too.

I still choose LibraryThing ov

2007-02-25T17:28:14.349+01:00

I still choose LibraryThing over Shelfari. Yes, Shelfari is glossy and pretty, and if Amazon throws in then who knows. BUT ... LibraryThing is quick, it's easy, and the ability to connect, comment, review, find, and discuss is also super quick and easy. LibraryThing just feels like it was made for real book-lovers ... whereas Shelfari feels like it was made for ... Amazon lovers? Shrug.

That's a tough call, actually.

2007-02-19T21:17:01.157+01:00

That's a tough call, actually. Technically speaking, I'm at work in a public institution ... so I'm technically not only "in public" but also "serving the public." So I don't know if I can appeal to a violation of privacy in that case. Can I? I would feel personally betrayed, of course. I don't *think* I have anything to worry about, as I tend to have a good raport with my students and always try to treat them with good-humored respect. What was interesting to me was seeing the comments on most of those videos. It seems the public usually sides with the teacher. Perhaps this is a good lesson for the "baiters" ... ?

Oh no. I said I'd leave this

2007-02-14T15:26:01.062+01:00

Oh no. I said I'd leave this thread alone ... but then these last few comments popped up in CoComment. Sorry Dan. This is something I've been meaning to write about on my little blog but haven't gotten to yet. That means this comment will be too brief and completely lack citations for support, but I'll get to it soon ... promise. In the meantime, let me just say that I think this hits a major issue squarely on the head. A focus on just "the basics" and a failure to understand the role of the arts or the necessity of interdisciplinary learning is exactly what is killing education and is exactly why we are not connecting with SO MANY students (across the demographic board). I'll throw in a few names: Daniel Goleman, Eric Jensen, Ken Robinson, Howard Gardner. Their books are worth considering. (I wrote about a "context and relevance" earlier, which connects to the interdisciplinary bit. I will try to address the arts bit more directly soon.) At the very least, it makes school a dry and dreary place to be, and that means teachers start from a losing position ...

Thanks for bringing awareness

2007-01-28T00:56:50.705+01:00

Thanks for bringing awareness to a side of the NCLB debate that isn’t getting enough exposure. My responses to what you’ve said here turned out to be much longer than I thought appropriate for a comment section. Forgive me, but I replied to your post on my own blog, and used your challenge as the impetus for some of my own writing. The link is here.