coComments related to Alas, a blog

At least this topic is not dyi

2009-07-19T12:53:46.153+02:00

At least this topic is not dying.e.g. I was just reading:The correlations between higher weight and greater health risk are weak except at statistical extremes. The extent to which those correlations are causal is poorly established. There is literally not a shred of evidence that turning fat people into thin people improves their health. And the reason there’s no evidence is that there’s no way to do it.So saying “let’s improve health by turning fat people into thin people” is every bit as irrational as saying “let’s improve health by turning men into women or old people into young people”. Actually it’s a lot crazier, because there actually are significant health differences between men and women and the old and the young — much more so than between the fat and the thin.http://meganmcardle.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/07/americas_moral_panic_over_obes.php at The Atlantic.

whatever you do today, don’t d

2009-05-27T23:50:08.931+02:00

whatever you do today, don’t diet. And maybe go enjoy a Chinese

I am a cardiologist and I obvi

2009-05-08T21:31:09.253+02:00

I am a cardiologist and I obviously completely disagree with you. 1) Obesity has definitely been associated with increase mortality, independent of exercise (see reference). 2) I agree weight loss diets have not shown consisent long term mortality data. However, people usually don’t follow these diets long term and the cost of a trial to do so is exceedingly expensive. Obesity is associated with an increase in diabetes, bad cholesterol, high blood pressure, gallstones, arthritis as well as psychological implications. Therefore, losing weight should reverse these and only give benefits over time — not during short term trials that have been done so far.3) Bariatric surgery yields 50% weight loss and has yielded significant mortality benefits, and has decreased all of the above medical complications.4) Finally, it is silly to say that scientists and doctors who have studied this all their lives are wrong. Who are you and what are your credentials. For all we know, you could work for McDonalds in an effort to confuse the public.References: Hu FB, Willett WC, Li T, Stampfer MJ, Colditz GA, Manson JE. Adiposity as compared with physical activity in predicting mortality among women. N Engl J Med. 2004 Dec 23;351(26):2694-703. PMID: 15616204

Do I think that obese (>30B

2009-05-08T21:25:40.804+02:00

Do I think that obese (>30BMI) are less attractive than people with a lower BMI? Yes, and I think most people would agree. Funny that someone should mention this. I guess I am not most people. My current husband is the perfect teddy bear type. My previous husband was teddy bearish too, but a bit bigger. It never occurred to me that they were unattractive to anyone else because of their weight. It can’t even be said that love makes me blind to my hubby’s belly, afterall he hasn’t changed much since I met him 10 years ago. Call me the minority here, but I find people with some meat on the bones (men and women) far more attractive than the super-skinny beauty queens of Hollywood. I would bet I am not alone here.

loss, dieting and obesity site

2009-05-08T21:24:35.772+02:00

loss, dieting and obesity site takes a multidisciplinary approach. Diet myths, the health risks, advice, pros and cons of diet and exercise, … Is Dieting OK for Kids? What is dieting and should kids do it, too? Find out in this article for kids. Alas, a blog Blog Archive The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting For The Vast Majority Of Fat People, Weight Loss Dieting Doesn t Work … The case for weight loss dieting typically assumes that fat people are fat because …

Original post: The Case Agains

2009-05-08T21:24:26.483+02:00

Original post: The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting by at Google Blog Search: dieting Blog tag: Dieting Technorati tag: Dieting

Original post: The Case Agains

2009-05-08T21:24:17.194+02:00

Original post: The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting by at Google Blog Search: dieting Pages: Start

,” as I’ll refer to WLDs for t

2009-05-08T21:24:07.905+02:00

,” as I’ll refer to WLDs for the rest of this post) doesn’t work, I mean two things. First of all, I mean that for most, the amount of weight lost isn’t enough to turn a fat person into a non-fat … Original post:The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting by at Google Blog Search: child weight loss diet

LinksThe Case Against Dieting

2009-05-08T21:23:58.616+02:00

LinksThe Case Against Dieting Edit-Me Edit-Me

The Case Against Weight-Loss D

2009-05-08T21:23:49.327+02:00

The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting:Here’s a remarkable fact: There isn’t a single peer-reviewed controlled clinical study of any weight-loss diet that shows success in losing a significant amount of weight over the long term. Not one.

Original post:The Case Against

2009-05-08T21:23:40.038+02:00

Original post:The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting by at Google Blog Search: weight loss that works

Another post on the diet. Who

2009-05-08T21:23:30.749+02:00

Another post on the diet. Who I am, Why I blog, the Shangri-la Diet and MeWhat I eat on the Shangri-la DietMy thread on my experiences at sethrobberts.com If you are interested in other diet related links:I don’t believe in diets, I think most of them are fraudulent and the authors know or should know what they are doing.no shortage of people giving Seth’s approach a boards.sethroberts.net/index.php?board=5… Twelve-Step ManualMore Diet www.oa.org/ Alas, A Blog — Collected Entries on Fat (scroll down)

on these results. Often any ch

2009-05-08T21:23:21.460+02:00

on these results. Often any change will be experienced as a positive result. When you change what you eat, the contrast feels good. But that doesn’t mean the diet works in the long term. Here’s an interesting quote from Alas (a blog)’s entry,“The Case Against Weight-Loss Dieting,” quoting Wayne Miller, an exercise science specialist at George Washington University. (Mind you, the blogger has something of an axe to grind and is very opinionated on this issue.) “No commercial program, clinical program, or research model has

Now, as it happens, I believe

2009-05-08T21:23:12.171+02:00

Now, as it happens, I believe that eating at Burger King won’t make you fat, nor will being fat make you unhealthy (more on that subject here). And I think people should feel free to eat what they want, even if it is unhealthy. But the way this commercial endorses ideologies of thinness and of sexism - even while waving a “just kidding! You’re not allowed to analyze what’s going on, because we’re! just! kidding!” banner - pretty much wipes out any possible beneficial message iit might have carried.

这篇讲了节食没什么好处。摘要如下。（细节请参考原文） 1，对

2009-05-08T21:23:02.882+02:00

这篇讲了节食没什么好处。摘要如下。（细节请参考原文） 1，对大部分的胖人来说，节食是没用的： a，节食其实减不掉多少体重，没有一个实例表明节食使人变瘦的。 b，对大部分人来说，节食的效果不能维持长久（比如说，5年）

deliquescent - I just really l

2009-05-08T21:22:53.593+02:00

deliquescent - I just really like the way this word feels in my mouth, but I don’t usually have occasion to use it, now that I am no longer ChemistryGirl 3. diet - something I don’t believe in (I think they areineffective and dangerous

No, the criticism is part of w

2009-05-08T21:22:44.304+02:00

No, the criticism is part of what persuaded me my posts were wrong for the blog’s social contract. Ampersand said that since the posts had been responded to, it wouldn’t be fair to just delete my posts and leave people’s comments hanging, but that it was ok for me to say I was wrong, which I was.I apologize too.

Well, what choice do they have

2009-05-08T21:22:07.639+02:00

Well, what choice do they have, BStu ? Can’t piss off those big-name advertisers, you know. Gotta’ till the ground for the Next Big Thing even while you’re hinting in that it won’t work, either…

I’m afraid the press responds

2009-05-08T21:21:58.931+02:00

I’m afraid the press responds to the futility of weight loss much the same as some contributors to this thread. “Diets don’t work. But try this restrictive eating plan to lose weight. It kinda worked for someone for a little time so that must mean its good.”

Hah. I was in the waiting roo

2009-05-08T21:21:50.223+02:00

Hah. I was in the waiting room at the medical clinic a week ago, skimming a stray copy of that came out early in ‘o6. Even they now concede that most diets are not a permanent, automatic road to health, yo-yo dieting is detrimental to health, fat is not inherently UNhealthy, etc.Nothing in there that really slapped down the diet industry, of course, or called for it to be more heavily regulated. There were lots of the customary individualist-as-king/queen-of-the-marketplace and calls for each person to boldly reject traditional diets, eat “mindfully” and so on.Still, it’s a start…

On retrospect, I don’t think s

2009-05-08T21:21:41.515+02:00

On retrospect, I don’t think so, which is why I’ve e-mailed the moderator and asked them to delete my posts, which I think were a mistake, all in all.anecdotal usually = wrong, and short term (which is what the time from November to now is) usually = temporary, though most diets only work for three to four weeks, three to four months really isn’t that much longer. Three to four years is much more appropriate for a time span.My apologies.

Eh. I didn’t claim that no one

2009-05-08T21:21:32.807+02:00

Eh. I didn’t claim that no one EVER loses weight and keeps it off; I claimed that weight loss diets fail 95% or more of the people who try them over the long term, and that no one would be able to show me a legitiamate, peer-reviewed study indicating otherwise.Since millions of people attempt to lose weight, if even 1 out of 30 succeed that’s a hell of a lot of anecdotal weight-loss stories that nonetheless don’t contradict my thesis. What would contradict my thesis would be if someone could show me a peer-reviewed, published controlled clinical study of any weight-loss diet that shows success in losing a significant amount of weight over the long term, for a substantial number of participants.As for the folks coming here and given anecdotal “I lost weight” accounts, if they can’t back it up with a legitmate study all they’re showing is that they might be that lucky one person out of 30. And they’re not even showing that much, if they haven’t yet kept the weight off for five years or more. Any weight loss program can produce short term weight loss, after all.

If someone says that fat peopl

2009-05-08T21:21:24.099+02:00

If someone says that fat people can’t lose weight without resorting to dangerous and extreme measures, then “I did, and here’s how” is a valid and pertinent response.

Would you prefer links to
2009-05-08T21:21:00.460+02:00
Would you prefer links to http://oa.org/ and stories about recovery?There is absolutely no moral imperative — that is silly. What does weight have to do with moral choices, unless you are starving someone else? I just had mobility and other issues. I’m still 5′5″ tall and 189 pounds, by no means thin.In that context, and in the context of discussing things that don’t work, I thought I’d mention something that appears to work. Feel free to be cynical, though the people promoting the method I use call it a diet straight up and without calling it something else, except it isn’t based on the classic approach of eat less and here is how (insert some method that changes the foods you eat to provoke the standard three to four week cycle of weight loss associated with changes in dietary intake for a temporary result that is enough to sell books, but does nothing but cause people to waste time and rebound).

No, no, cynorita. His is an “

2009-05-08T21:20:52.996+02:00

No, no, cynorita. His is an “alternative” to dieting. See, he knows that dieting has very bad branding which really sucks when you’re trying to promote a diet. But if you don’t call it a diet, that makes it all okay and wonderful. Diets are bad, but this isn’t a diet. Its a whole new way of eating.Or it could just be the usual self-importance of dieters who think that whatever scheme they are currently engaged in to manipulate their weight offers them the moral imperative to simply assume everyone will agree with their weight loss scheme and thank them for suggesting it.You know, one of those things.

BTW, now that this thread is o

2009-05-08T21:20:27.611+02:00

BTW, now that this thread is old and cold, I’ll leave a link to my experiences with an alternative to dieting:http://ethesis.blogspot.com/2006/04/50-pounds-lost-so-far.htmlI still don’t believe in it, I just cope because the method works and it is very easy.

s BMI temporarily, and because

2009-05-08T21:20:18.654+02:00

s BMI temporarily, and because so-called “weight cycling” (gaining and losing weight repeatedly) is more dangerous to one’s health than not losing weight to start with. See Amp’s round-up of the evidence supporting that claim here. Part of the problem has been what Mr. Burton refers to as the “oops” factor — the drug’s potentially embarrassing side effects. They can include diarrhea, flatulence and episodes of incontinence.

Remember, most contemporary di

2009-05-08T21:20:09.697+02:00

Remember, most contemporary diets don’t like to be called such, so expect contemporary dieters to insist on saying that they are not dieting. This is because they are detirmined to think their weight loss schemes are special and somehow immune from the record of abject failure that all weight loss schemes have left in their wake. They will fervently insist that their “whole new way of eating” is not at all dieting. This technique was later co-opted by The Altria Group. If you insist on calling a duck a giraffe, the hope is that people will ignore the incesant quacking.

I don’t have a reference for i

2009-05-08T21:20:00.740+02:00

I don’t have a reference for it, but I remember the author Peg Bracken mentioned something about diets and weight loss in one of her books. There had been a study showing, she said, that if you took people who’d been reporting their diets and not losing weight and then fed them what they they’d been eating, they would lose weight.I think that the safest course is to focus on eating foods that build health and stay at least moderately active.

It is interesting that none of

2009-05-08T21:19:51.783+02:00

It is interesting that none of the respondents (except perhaps one who is apparently on a liquid protein diet) are not using low carb nutritional information. You are wrong, though it isn’t obvious. I switched to a diet where my goal is to get enough protien so I don’t lose muscle mass, but where it is fairly high carb, all in all, and because my set point shifted, I’ve lost a lot of weight (about 48 pounds as of this morning) without “dieting” in the classic sense.It will take a lot more experimentation to see if the method works on broad segments of the population or not, though it is inexpensive, simple and fairly easy. (and it isn’t my method).

It is interesting that none of

2009-05-08T21:19:42.826+02:00

It is interesting that none of the respondents (except perhaps one who is apparently on a liquid protein diet) are not using low carb nutritional information. While I respect you (Ampersand) for presenting a reasonable case using scientific data, your almost reflexive attacks against anyone who disagrees as stooges of the diet industry or culturally biased against fat people. My response is so what! Attacking the person as opposed to the message is called an “ad hominem” argument. It is a favorite tactic used by lawyers, politicians and others when their argument is weak). Do I think that obese (>30BMI) are less attractive than people with a lower BMI? Yes, and I think most people would agree. These are called prejudices. They do not disqualify someone from expressing their opinion. One just has to aware that they are not facts, but rather opinions. So, let’s to get to some facts, looking at your charts of BMI vs. Age vs. Mortality of hospital patients, it is clear that higher BMI’s are associated with greater mortality with increasing Age. This makes sense. When you’re young your body is able to easily cope with the strain both physically and physiologically of carrying extra weight. As you get older you become more fragile and less able to cope with this burden. It is also evident that the optimal BMI for lowest mortality is different for different age groups. For age groups up to 79 it appears to be between 35 and 40, while 80+ apparently had an optimal BMI of 30. As others have pointed out this was a study of hospital patients who apparently have other illnesses or they wouldn’t be in the hospital. But if we take the data as applying to other people, the optimal BMI is somewhere in the 30’s with mortality increasing for the extremely obese (>40). The U shaped curve is still there, it’s just in a different place. The reference to 16,936 Harvard alumni having a higher mortality with a BMI 32 BMI group may not have statistical significance. Also the reference you give for the Harvard study, Paffenbager at al., appears to apply to the second reference, Blair, S.N., Kohl, Paffenbarger, Clark, Cooper, and Gibbons (1989). “Physical Fitness and All Cause Mortality, A Prospective Study of Healthy Men and Women,” Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA), vol 262 p. 2395-2401. This is, apparently from the abstract in JAMA, a study of fitness levels, BMI and Relative Risk of mortality conducted at the Cooper Institute in Texas. The Harvard Study does not appear to be any of the references cited. This brings me to the actual study, the results of which are expressed in the second chart of your BLOG comparing fitness vs. BMI vs. mortality just mentioned. It only covers an 8 year period and inexplicably cuts off at BMI>25. BMI >30 is considered as obese and BMI > 40 is considered as extremely obese and therefore at greatly increased risk of heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc. A great number of muscular fit people have a BMI >25 which as mentioned in various comments is one of the problems with BMI as measure of obesity. While it does seem to indicate that fitness is an element for reducing mortality, it doesn’t address what I would call the Chicken and Egg problem. Are they healthy because they are fit or are they unhealthy because they are unfit? Anotherwords if you are carrying an extra 100+ pounds it is difficult to maintain sustained physical activity, i.e. jogging, various sports, etc. The abstract can be found at http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/262/17/2395.As far as diabetes and obesity being unrelated. This is a bit of personal research.Trends for diagnosed diabetes, obesity, and overweight in New York State adults using 3-year moving average, 1995-1999. Middle Year of Three-Year Average Prevalence of diagnosed diabetes* (%) 19951996199719981999 3.84.24.85.56Estimated number of adults with diagnosed diabetes (in thousands) 532578665761832Prevalence of obesity (%) 14.214.815.616.617.1Estimated number of obese adults (in thousands) 1,9612,0462,1602,2942,374Prevalence of overweight (%) 50.150.551.251.854.1Estimated number of overweight adults (in thousands) 6,9146,9757,0827,1677,486Correlation btwn Diagnosed Diabetes % and Prevalence of Obesity %0.9986 Correlation btwn Diagnosed Diabetes % and Prevalence of Overweight %0.9348This is some research that I did myself using an EXCEL spreadsheet. Note the extremely high correlation between obesity and diabetes, approaching 100%. Read your paper, check on line news. There is a diabetes epidemic even among the young, where Type 2 diabetes previously unknown in this age group is now being diagnosed with increasing frequency. Yes, there is an obesity epidemic. Obesity rates were relative stable until about 20 years ago when it was decided with very weak evidence that fat was bad and carbohydrates were good and that sugar was OK because it was a carbohydrate. Another piece of research that I did was the correlation between sweetener and grain consumption and obesity which is reproduced here :Correl btwn Grain Consumption + Sweetener Prod =96.9% Correlation btwn Grain Consumption + Total Overwt =98.0% Correl btwn Sweetener Prod + Total Overwt =99.4%Based on charts supplied by the USDA Economic Research Service and HHS Nation Center for Health Statistics 1975-1997Folks, there is an obesity epidemic and it promises to be a health nightmare. It appears to be largely the result of increased sweetener and grain consumption, a policy promoted by the USDA, who have the conflicted job of representing both Agribusiness and the public. They do a much better job of the former than the latter. As for the relationship between carbohydrates and obesity see Gary Taubes The Soft Science of Dietary Fat and What if It’s All Been a Big Fat Lie? which can be found by searching the net. Gary Taubes is a multi prize winning science journalist. Another great reference is The Cholesterol Myths by Uffe Ravnskov, M.D., Ph.D. which can be found on the net and in book form. Read these with an open mind and don’t instantly dismiss them because they conflict with what you’ve heard, read or believe. They will rock your world. I know they did mine. Finally, you’re about where I was 4 years ago. Research indicated the impossibility of losing weight and keeping it off. However I was gaining weight every year and was getting to the point where my favorite activities, volleyball, softball and bicycling were becoming difficult. Then a friend mentioned Sugar Busters, a low carb book. From there I read the Atkins diet book and others before finding Protein Power Lifeplan by Mike and Mary Dan Eades, MD. which to me was the best book I’ve read on nutrition and diet(ing). While I have my doubts that you’ll allow this to be posted, I do thank you for allowing me the space to express my thoughts irregardless.

Thank-you. This is what I have

2009-05-08T21:19:33.869+02:00

Thank-you. This is what I have told my girl-friends for a long time — is bad for you. Eating right, and excersizing will get you a lot further, health-wise.

Reading through these comments

2009-05-08T21:19:24.912+02:00

Reading through these comments, I noticed a couple of confessions by overweight people who said that they had binged or stuffed. They added “I’m sure a lot of fat people do.” Well, I’m sure a lot of thin people do too. As stated several times here, thin people eat a lot of crap, but no one condemns them for it as long as they appear thin. Eating disorders aside, for all we know, just as many thin people binge and stuff as do fat people. They just get away with it, and don’t admit to it with the guilt that an overweight person feels compelled to demonstrate.

Magess, while I fail to see wh

2009-05-08T21:18:51.071+02:00

Magess, while I fail to see why your unusual affliction where you see things that aren’t there is at all my problem, this is regretably a common ailment as evidence by many posts in this thread. I regret that there doesn’t seem to be a cure, as I’ve responded to this “complaint” several times already only to see it raised again. It is a strawman arguement. Just because the defenders of the diet industry are completely certain that this strawman is real, there is no Blue Fairy here to make it so. The fact remains that it is the efforts of the diet industry which do far more to disaude fat people from healthy lifestyles than the mythical complaint about fat acceptance theories doing so. You here, the weight doesn’t matter and make an unsupported leap to presume this means a permission to gorge oneself. Contrary to your belief, fat people are not eager to stuff themselves with cake, abated only by the generous efforts of the diet industry to convince them eating is evil. What we are calling for is a world where ALL people can have a healthy relationship with food. One where veggies aren’t an undesirable chore and one where cake is not hated temptress. One where people can listen to their bodies and learn to genuinely appreciate the foods that are “good” for them, and learn to not be afraid of foods that taste “good” to them. The vast majority will quickly realize that veggies can be quite tasty, and they certainly don’t want cake all the time. The only people encouraging fat people to “give up” is the diet industry. By insisting that the only thing worth caring about is their weight, they give the 99% of people who won’t successfully lose weight an excuse to eat in an unhealthy manner. Not only do they foster disordered eating and unhealthy relationships with food, when they say all that matters is your weight, and people see that moderate and healthy eating has no effect on their weight, they are prone to conclude that it isn’t worth doing. When they see that moderate and sustainable activity has no effect on their weight, they have been coached to believe it is therefore not worth doing. The diet industry has made all these fears come true, and yet we still see them trotted out against anyone who opposes the diet industry. Such “Up is downism” must not stand.What we are saying is that healthy and moderate eating and excercise will result in better healthy for everyone. The fact that it hasn’t been shown to result significant fat loss shouldn’t be a disqualifying factor in measures that have been repeatedly and emperically proven to significantly improve health. Weight loss as the carrot on the stick has not worked. Its high time for a new approach with proven results.

Have to agree with Jordoh on t

2009-05-08T21:18:43.607+02:00

Have to agree with Jordoh on that one. The Jeffrey Friedman quote is obviously wrong where it claims that differences in weight over time are explained by genetic differences.However, there is a large amount of biological difference which is pretty much fixed very early in life, but is not genetic, so the finding that behavior is not effective in changing weight is not invalidated by the obvious fact that changes in average weight over the last century are not genetic in origin. Magess, healthy diet is still healthy diet, it just doesn’t lead to weight loss (and the quack healthy diets that are supposed to lead to weight loss (and that sometimes lead to tempoorary weight loss in some people) are rarely healthy diets). Getting excercise is much healthier than not getting excercise, it just doesn’t lead to weight loss. Only in an ideology that equates weight with health does the fact that healthy diet and excercise will not result in meaningful (enough to go from fat to thin) weight loss mean that anyone should not bother eating a healthy diet and getting excercise. If the point is to be healthy and stay healthier later on into life, then diet and excercise matter a lot (I get the impression that excercise matters more). If the point is to go from being fat to being thin, then diet and excercise don’t matter, or are counter-productive.This suggests not that diet and excercise are unimportant, but that losing lots of weight is usually an unwise goal.

As long as we’re playing the A

2009-05-08T21:18:11.259+02:00

As long as we’re playing the Anecdotal Evidence Game–hasn’t anyone ever noticed that people’s bodies come in all different builds? There are people who are big and have been all their lives. There are people who are just naturally kind of skinny. We need to encourage healthy eating and exercise for everyone, instead of assuming that fitting into undersized jeans means health.

As for diets working (or not w

2009-05-08T21:18:03.795+02:00

As for diets working (or not working) in the long run; we all know diets do work in the short run: one only needs to see episodes of Biggest Loser or watch any friend/relative working on losing weight to see that only a few months can have a significant impact on body weight.The remaining question is why the weight loss doesn’t sustain for longer periods (e.g 5 years). There really are only two alternatives (or a combination thereof):1) The person didn’t sustain hir new lifestyle 2) The person’s metabolic rate droppedIf someone wants to argue against weight-loss diets, I’d like an explanation in these terms, not just “throwing hands up” in light of questionably conducted human-behavioristic research.(Notice that we all know people who have managed to sustain their new body weight, and these people never seem to have gone back to their old lifestyles. This isn’t of course an exact proof that all failed ones did go back to their old lifestyles, but it does restrict the underlying causality models a little.)

I have nothing but respect for

2009-05-08T21:17:33.107+02:00

I have nothing but respect for empirical data. But come on! Really! Translation: You have nothing but respect for empirical data that goes along with your comfortable pre-existing beliefs and prejudices. Otherwise, it’s “come on! Really!” as if that makes facts go away.

Thank you, Steph, for remindin

2009-05-08T21:17:10.546+02:00

Thank you, Steph, for reminding us once again that no matter how much proof there is of the futility of dieting and the wrong-mindedness of health-based attacks on fatness, there will always be those who are undetered by such facts and will still paint fat people as the lazy, morally inferior gluttons they are so sure they must be.You can claim to not be defending the bigotry that fat people are subjected to, but you are. You and everyone else here who thinks fat people just haven’t bothered to try. You and everyone else who falsely presumes there is any choice in the matter. Even if you aren’t the one denying us jobs or harrassing us in the street, you stand there and you defend and promote the very attitude that justifies those bigotries. You announce to the world that the hatred is proper and justified. You may not want to deal with what you are defending, but that is the reality. That is what “you can, too, lose weight!” is defending.I see this parade of people who’ve recently lost weight who pretend to know ANYTHING about what they are talking about. Its to be expected, of course. This is one of the great deceptions of the weight loss industry. Because you are right to a point. Anyone can lose weight. Starvation and over-exertion are quiet effective at inducing weight loss. But they aren’t effective at maintaining that weight loss. Sure, a small handful may be able to maintain disordered eating for an extended period of time. And a small handful may actually lose a slight amount of weight by adopting more activity. Neither instance justifies the bigotry displayed when fat people are self-righteously told that they should just lose weight. The reality remains that for the overwhelming majority, sustainable weight loss will NOT be their reality. No number of momentary “I did it’s” will change that. You presume your isolated experience gives you the right to presume to know the lives of millions? How dare you.I know you just want to portray your attitude as supportive cheerleading for the diet industry, but let us deal for a second with the consequences of your position. You say that fat people are just lazy. That is the consequence of your position that fat people will become not fat by excercising. You presume to know that they are not. And what about me? I commute by mass transit every day. I don’t drive to my train station. I walk. 20 minutes from my house to the station every morning and evening, with another 5 to and from my office. Sometimes, I add an extra hour in running errands for my job, because I do it all on foot. 40-60 minutes a day of vigorous walking across a hilly terrain. And yet, I’m 245lbs. So what are the consequences of your position for me? Will you call me a liar? Will you tell me my activity doesn’t count? Or will you decide to make an exception for me and tell me that *I* don’t count? I’ve gotten all three responses. Which consequence of your belief will you take?Am I liar? Easy enough for me to respond to. No, I’m not. I’m not doing it right? I love how people put qualifications on excercise only when presented with a challenge to their truth. From all that I’ve read, I fall very much in-line with recomendations for walking. Anything you might say to invalidate my activity will ring very false. Or, do I just not count? Your momentary experience with relatively slight weight loss is proof of something, but my experience isn’t? Why? Because it isn’t what you expect? Because you’re just so sure that fat people are lazy you won’t let go of that belief?Weight needs to be taken out of the arguement. Encourage moderate and sustainable activity. Encourage people to develop a healthy relationship with food unburdened by oppressive stigmatization from disordered eating plans. Focus on health. Not weight. This isn’t giving fat people an excuse. Its not accepting the excuses offered by the weight loss industry.

Steph Writes: April 8th, 20

2009-05-08T21:17:02.584+02:00
Steph Writes: April 8th, 2006 at 8:12 am Well, I made it to i-kyu in Shotokan, old style, but was still over weight at the end. Before then I was up with the seals (as my wife called the 5:00 a.m. crowd at the YMCA pool), some of which had been at it for 10+ years, and there is a reason my wife called them “the seals” besides the way we all stood around waiting for the door to open like a crowd of seals.Sigh.

Next, and far less surprising,

2009-05-08T21:16:54.622+02:00
Next, and far less surprising, Ampersand, who is fast on his way to becoming a national treasure, provides the definitive (honestly; bookmark it and never have the argument again without it at your fingertips) case against weight-loss dieting. This piece is a superb combination of documented science and deep human compassion. Read every word

Anyone who spouts off with thi

2009-05-08T21:16:29.237+02:00
Anyone who spouts off with this has clearly always been wealthy. In America, cheap food is starchy, greasy and fattening. A $1 box of mac and cheese will make you feel more full than $1 worth of carrots. And if you live in a poor neighborhood, you probably don’t HAVE a Safeway, you sure as hell don’t have a Whole Foods, and your too-expensive corner store doesn’t sell organic arugula.There’s nothing wrong with wanting to be in physically better condition, Z, but why muddy it up with ‘losing weight’? If I cut my arms off, I’d lose weight. If I became a fitness model with 10% body fat and bulging quads, I’d gain weight.

Z, there is no choice in being

2009-05-08T21:16:20.529+02:00
Z, there is no choice in being fat. Supporting the myth that there is only serves to endorse fat bigotry. That’s the issue at hand, and one clearly many people have absolutely no interest in dealing with. Far easier to hang onto their bigoted and self-bigoted notions of fat people as moral failures and coming up with tortured justifications for their bigotry as if it weren’t. Rephrase this discussion with any other group or class and the bigotry would be undeniable. Only a strong cultural and unthinking hatred for fat people prevents acknowledgement of what is plainly evident.

I don’t know what to think abo

2009-05-08T21:16:11.821+02:00
I don’t know what to think about this issue, but I am certain that the ordinary view that obesity is caused by eating lots is based on some pretty cluey observations which need to be done justice by an opposing theory if it is to stand a chance of over-turning common sense.1) Many people have had the experience of needing to fit into a special outfit for some occasion and finding that it just a bit too small. And many have gone on impromptu crash diets for a few weeks and managed to slim down enough to fit.Now while the intuition that such a weight loss could be maintained, or even that the lowest weight is at all stable (perhaps there is no level of intake that would maintain that weight, and this explains yo-yo weight loss, there simply is no stable point where some people want to maintain their weight) is misplaced, we do all know that in the short term weight can be affected by dieting.2) Americans are fatter than people from poor countries.People in countries where there is plenty of cheap food and where there is not a strong social more against large portions seem a lot fatter on average than those in countries where food is not readily available. (And no I don’t mean where people are starving, there are plenty of people who seem to get enough to eat, but who can’t afford to indulge themselves in eating more, and those people seem to be a lot thinner than those who can and do afford to eat as much as they feel like.)Any theory which says that food intake is not connected with weight in the long term, is going to have to explain how that is compatible with these two truths (or show that they are not true). Number one is easy, I suppose, things that work in the short term often don’t work in the long term, we can all come at that, though it would interesting to see why that is in the case of weight gain/loss. But I don’t see a way around number two. You can hedge, some people will be unaffected by the amount they eat, but you can’t have an effect on average without having an effect on individuals which is often in the same direction. Someone out there who has ready access to food is a whole lot fatter than those people that don’t. In fact there must be, if 2 is correct, a whole lot of such someones. Such indeed is pointed out by the comparisons between economically segregated groups in the original post.One’s natural suspicion is that this is not mere correlation, and anyone who says it is owes an alternative explanation of how that correlation is established. One way to explain the effect would be that its easy to gain (or avoid gaining weight) but hard to lose it once gained, that would I suggest be compatible with both the common view and the evidence I see presented here.I’m hoping someone who reads this will be able to present information that will make my mind up.

The thing about healthy person

2009-05-08T21:16:03.113+02:00
The thing about healthy person/unhealthy person is that it is nobody’s business except that person, and it is between them and their doctor, and no one should presume to know about another person’s health and even if they do, why they should then make judgements on a person’s character is… beyond me.

Wow, this sort of thing has le

2009-05-08T21:15:54.405+02:00
Wow, this sort of thing has legs, not to mention the way it brings out the trolls.I feel for the binge eater who is posting, I’ve friends who are out of control that way. It isn’t about the size, it is the loss of control, like an alcoholic except with food — and unlike an alcoholic, they can’t just quit eating.There are a lot of different issues that all come together in this subject, but I am glad of the initial post.Thanks to everyone who has given me things to think about.

I don’t know who told you that

2009-05-08T21:15:45.697+02:00
I don’t know who told you that, but it’s not true. 5′4″/150 gives you a BMI of 25.8, which is just outside the “normal” range.

Not to disparage all these peo

2009-05-08T21:15:13.765+02:00
Not to disparage all these people, who I am sure are lovely, but wouldn’t it be nice to have a thread about fat and weight without all the “I weighed blah blah and then I did blah blah blah blah and now I’m blah blah —> extrapolate to population”? Anecdotes can be useful, but there seems (to me at least) there is an overabundance in this topic. How about a thread using only clinical data and social theory, without all the personal diets on show?

Thanks, BStu (and by the way,

2009-05-08T21:14:51.204+02:00
Thanks, BStu (and by the way, my apologies - I’ve just noticed that I’ve been misreading your name). My understanding was that in general, specifically regarding the development of Type II diabetes, body fat is thought to play a role in the development of increasing insulin resistance in many cases, rather than being a symptom of it, and I’m interested in any information you have to the contrary (although my dad, who’s very worried about his risk right now, will be even more so). I did search the Canadian Diabetes Foundation website for information, but didn’t see anything like what you’re suggesting.And no disagreement from me about the need to be culturally neutral on weight.

Actually, Gabriel, dedicating

2009-05-08T21:14:43.242+02:00
Actually, Gabriel, dedicating your life to a strong against your body is contributing to the oppression of fat people. Aside from endorsing a wrong-minded view that fat people are morally responsible for their bodies, you are very much oppressing yourself. I’ve seen a lot of fat people eagerly blame themselves for being morally inferior, but my observations never bore out their self-blame. I’m sorry, but “trust me, its okay for me to hate fat” doesn’t cut it with me.